"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ." - Jerome

Monday, September 21, 2009

Lord's Prayer: Forgive us, as we forgive

This is a great discussion on the petition in the Lord's Prayer:

"Forgive Us Our Trespasses as We Forgive Those Who Trespass Against Us"

Martin Luther on this petition:

The Fifth Petition.
85] And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

86] This part now relates to our poor miserable life, which, although we have and believe the Word of God, and do and submit to His will, and are supported by His gifts and blessings, is nevertheless not without sin. For we still stumble daily and transgress because we live in the world among men who do us much harm and give us cause for impatience, anger, revenge, etc. 87] Besides, we have Satan at our back, who sets upon us on every side, and fights (as we have heard) against all the foregoing petitions, so that it is not possible always to stand firm in such a persistent conflict.

88] Therefore there is here again great need to call upon God and to pray: Dear Father, forgive us our trespasses. Not as though He did not forgive sin without and even before our prayer (for He has given us the Gospel, in which is pure forgiveness before we prayed or ever thought about it). But this is to the intent that we may recognize and accept such forgiveness. 89] For since the flesh in which we daily live is of such a nature that it neither trusts nor believes God, and is ever active in evil lusts and devices, so that we sin daily in word and deed, by commission and omission, by which the conscience is thrown into unrest, so that it is afraid of the wrath and displeasure of God, and thus loses the comfort and confidence derived from the Gospel; therefore it is ceaselessly necessary that we run hither and obtain consolation to comfort the conscience again.

90] But this should serve God's purpose of breaking our pride and keeping us humble. For in case any one should boast of his godliness and despise others, God has reserved this prerogative to Himself, that the person is to consider himself and place this prayer before his eyes, and he will find that he is no better than others, and that in the presence of God all must lower their plumes, and be glad that they can attain forgiveness. 91] And let no one think that as long as we live here he can reach such a position that he will not need such forgiveness. In short, if God does not forgive without ceasing, we are lost.

92] It is therefore the intent of this petition that God would not regard our sins and hold up to us what we daily deserve, but would deal graciously with us, and forgive, as He has promised, and thus grant us a joyful and confident conscience to stand before Him in prayer. For where the heart is not in right relation towards God, nor can take such confidence, it will nevermore venture to pray. But such a confident and joyful heart can spring from nothing else than the [certain] knowledge of the forgiveness of sin.

93] But there is here attached a necessary, yet consolatory addition: As we forgive. He has promised that we shall be sure that everything is forgiven and pardoned, yet in the manner that we also forgive our neighbor. 94] For just as we daily sin much against God, and yet He forgives everything through grace, so we, too, must ever forgive our neighbor who does us injury, violence, and wrong, shows malice toward us, etc. 95] If, therefore, you do not forgive, then do not think that God forgives you; but if you forgive, you have this consolation and assurance, that you are forgiven in heaven, not on account of your forgiving, for God forgives freely and without condition, out of pure grace, because He has so promised, as the Gospel teaches, but in order that He may set this up for our confirmation and assurance for a sign alongside of the promise which accords with this prayer, Luke 6:37: Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. Therefore Christ also repeats it soon after the Lord's Prayer, and says, Matt. 6:14: For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, etc.

97] This sign is therefore attached to this petition, that, when we pray, we remember the promise and reflect thus: Dear Father, for this reason I come and pray Thee to forgive me, not that I can make satisfaction, or can merit anything by my works, but because Thou hast promised and attached the seal thereto that I should be as sure as though I had absolution pronounced by Thyself. 98] For as much as Baptism and the Lord's Supper, appointed as external signs, effect, so much also this sign can effect to confirm our consciences and cause them to rejoice. And it is especially given for this purpose, that we might use and practise it every hour, as a thing that we have with us at all times.


Andrew said...

"you are forgiven in heaven, not on account of your forgiving, for God forgives freely and without condition"

How do you square that quote with Jesus' following words:

"but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." - Matthew 6:15

Without meaning to be offensive, I have to say that it LOOKS like you're sacrificing a passage in the scriptures for the doctrine of Faith Alone.

Jared Nelson said...

The first part of that quote from Luther helps:

"If, therefore, you do not forgive, then do not think that God forgives you; but if you forgive, you have this consolation and assurance"

But let me ask: Have you done that perfectly?

In taking Matt 6:15, you take a section out of Matthew 5-7 which is the Sermon on the Mount. Tell me, do you find much comfort in that Sermon that your "righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees"? If not of faith in Christ's fulfillment of the Law on your behalf, do you believe you have given freely to those that have wronged you? Tamed every lustful thought? Calmed every angry thought? Have you confessed every sin perfectly? If not, do you have any hope apart from Christ's righteousness exceeding that of the Pharisees or do you have that down? Do you plead your works or Christ's works?

Andrew said...

That's why St. Augustine invented Purgatory Jared :)

Jared Nelson said...

That's not an answer. Do you believe a limited time will burn away the infinite offense to an infinite God? Does an infinitely good God-man stand for you, or a finite man in yourself? Not just in punishment, but how many works buy the infinite merit of Christ?

Andrew said...

The righteousness which is that of the pharisees is a human righteousness, it's attainable, St. Paul was more righteous than the Pharisees, Christ removes our sins and no human suffering can do that, but if righteousness is conformation to the Character of God then Purgatory can do just that, continue justification unto completion.

あじ said...

Jared, I think "time" is a non sequitur when speaking of purgatory (as indeed would be true of heaven and hell). More importantly, was the merit earned by Christ human or divine?

Andrew, would you consider the righteousness of the Pharisees to be of the flesh, rather than of the Spirit? Is it even proper to compare the righteousness of the Pharisees, who were not baptized, were not regenerated, and did not partake of the flesh and blood of Christ, to the righteousness of those who did? I'm sure I'm showing my lack of education by asking these questions.

Jared Nelson said...

Andrew - What is Paul smoking when he talks about justification by the righteousness of Christ then?

Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.