"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ." - Jerome

Wednesday, March 07, 2007

Gospel and Robes

I attended a mid-day mass in Dallas at an Anglican Church on the invite of a friend. Ministers in robes who actually preach the gospel...different. The church has such a rich history of great christians such as Cramner, Wesley, Whitefield, Wilberforce, John Newton, Charles Simeon, C.S. Lewis, J.I. Packer, and Alister McGrath. Seems the Dallas diocese is one of the most conservative in the country.The Anglican church will gather in 2008 in England to (hopefully) address the ordination of homosexuals by the more liberal wings in America. If the more liberal wings are expelled, the Anglican church might revert to being a great conservative semi-evangelical church again. A hopeful prospect.


JimDad said...

I once read an interview with an evangelical from the Anglican Church and when asked why he was still an Anglican, he replied, "It is as good a boat as any to fish from." We should be appreciative of those that keep the boats from being skuttled by false doctrine and poor leaders, whatever the denomination. The Anglicans need our prayers.

Aaron said...

When the center of the church is officially in Africa, then maybe it would be the case.

Aaron said...

I find your post interesting but I thought I would have some fun and let Spurgeon speak as well. You know, just for fun;

"I am not aware that any Protestant Church in England teaches the doctrine of baptismal regeneration except one, and that happens to be the denomination, which without much humility calls itself the Church of England. ...
Here we have a Church which teaches every Lord's day in the Sunday-school, and should, according to their own rules, teach openly in the Church, that all children were made members of Christ, children of God, and inheritors of the kingdom of heaven when they were baptized! Here is a allegedly Protestant Church, which, every time its minister goes to the baptismal font, declares that every person receiving baptism is then and there "regenerated and grafted into the body of Christ's Church.

But, then I hear many good people assert, that "there are many good ministers in the Church of England who do not believe in baptismal regeneration." To this my answer is prompt. Why then do they belong to a Church which clearly teaches that doctrine? I am told that many in the Church of England preach against her own teaching. I know they do, and I rejoice in their wisdom, but I question, gravely question their ethics. To take an oath which requires me to honestly agree and consent to a doctrine which I do not believe, would to my conscience appear to be much like perjury, if not downright lying; but those who do so must be judged by their own Lord. For me to take money for defending what I do not believe—for me to take the money from a Church, and then to clearly preach against its doctrines—I say for me to do this, or for any other honest man to do so, would be a great atrocity. In fact, I would consider myself a man who lacked truthfulness, honesty, and common decency." -CHS

Jared Nelson said...

"But you see Lisa, if I am a part of that mob, I can help guide it in wise directions...Now where is my big foam cowboy hat and air horn?"

-But I think that is one of the problems in looking for the right church: in order to have the doctrinally sound church I totally agree with, I would have to build it, but then my wife wouldn't agree with it...

Aaron said...

Gets back to the question of what are you willing to break fellowship over. Funny that a reformed BAPTIST would think this worth it. And what does the denomination want you to sign on to as a member or clergy etc.

I do like liturgical services. I like the quite reverence as a nice break from loud happy clappy Evangelical Protestantism.

I like the mob quote. Also, "But Dad you are giving into mob mentality! No Lisa I am hopping on the band wagon. Now get on board!"

Jared Nelson said...

Spurgeon also said "I would cross the world to convince a man to be a Christian; but I wouldn't cross the street to make him a Baptist."

Charles said...

Article 25: The Sacraments were not ordained of Christ to be gazed upon, or to be carried about, but that we should duly use them. And in such only as worthily receive the same have they a wholesome effect or operation: but they that receive them unworthily purchase to themselves damnation, as Saint Paul saith.

Article 27 (which Spurgeon refers to): Baptism is not only a sign of profession, and mark of difference, whereby Christian men are discerned from others that be not christened, but is also a sign of Regeneration or new Birth, whereby, as by an instrument, they that receive Baptism rightly are grafted into the Church; the promises of the forgiveness of sin, and of our adoption to be the sons of God by the Holy Ghost, are visibly signed and sealed; Faith is confirmed, and Grace increased by virtue of prayer unto God. The Baptism of young Children is in any wise to be retained in the Church, as most agreeablewith the institution of Christ.

Charles said...

I don't think that's so different from Calvin or Luther.

Calvin: "the sign of the initiation by which we are received into the society of the church, in order that, engrafted in Christ, we may be reckoned among God's children"(Inst.4, 15, 1).

Luther: Thus we must regard Baptism and make it profitable to
ourselves, that when our sins and conscience oppress us, we strengthen ourselves and take comfort and say: Nevertheless I
am baptized; but if I am baptized, it is promised me that I shall be saved and have eternal life, both in soul and body.

For that is the reason why these two things are done in Baptism namely, that the body, which can apprehend nothing but the water, is sprinkled, and, in addition, the word is spoke for the soul to apprehend. Now, since both, the water and the Word, are one Baptism, therefore body and soul must be saved and live forever: the soul through the Word which it believes,but the body because it is united with the soul and also
apprehends Baptism as it is able to apprehend it. We have, therefore, no greater jewel in body and soul, for by it we are
made holy and are saved, which no other kind of life, no work
upon earth, can attain. (Concord, Large Catechism, Baptism).

Aaron said...

One of the coolest sounding things that Luther ever said on Baptism is that it is like gold. It is still gold even if it is warn by a harlot. But he is still so wrong in the issue of Baptism. I do like his loophole however. You do not need to be baptized if a despot withheld water from you. That is nice of God. (I am having a little fun with him. I think he was illustrating a different point which I can not remember. I love Luther!)