tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7615787.post619055438412735284..comments2023-08-26T09:34:18.163-05:00Comments on Dead Theologians: Why I cannot be Roman Catholic (Part 4): I believe Mary is the TheotokosJared Nelsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18445783451815077626noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7615787.post-48968446680262323542012-03-05T09:42:28.594-06:002012-03-05T09:42:28.594-06:00Have you ever read the "Glories of Mary"...Have you ever read the "Glories of Mary" by St Alphonsus Liguori?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7615787.post-69988671202435413062008-09-03T17:23:00.000-05:002008-09-03T17:23:00.000-05:00LOL - that was the greatest response I've ever got...LOL - that was the greatest response I've ever got... <BR/><BR/>I guess what I was trying to say is that from what I've read (quotes from Aquinas and Bernard put up by Catholic Apologists), it would seem that they believed that the very act of conception was in some way sinful and thus they believed Mary was conceived in sin.<BR/><BR/>I think I go with St. Augustine's view on Mary, that we should just not talk about Jesus' mama and her sins, and not speculate about them. Though of course if someone is denying the universality of sin (with the immaculate conception) it tends to be something we have to fight about. <BR/><BR/>I think she was a great woman, but I've still never heard a logical Catholic response to the verse where Christ calls St. John the Baptist the greatest born of woman.Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02752373297874435269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7615787.post-22675226686099560702008-09-03T16:28:00.000-05:002008-09-03T16:28:00.000-05:00I don't quite know what you are saying on the imma...I don't quite know what you are saying on the immaculate conception. The ones advocating for an immaculate conception of Mary did so to make Mary sinless. Others argued against it because they saw Mary as in need of redemption too. A general feeling towards sex of "icky-ness" (that's the theological term) is in quite a few of the fathers, some more than others. None of them see it as sinful if done for the purpose of reproduction. Just don't enjoy it too much! "Marriage and the Early Church" by David Hunt is a book with some texts to compare on the early church on sex and marriage. That's mostly what I am basing the diverse take on sex on. Tertullian and Augustine fall in the "icky" camp. Methodius and Lactantius are more "hey, look at the cool thing God made" camp. Sorry to use so many technical classifications.Jared Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445783451815077626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7615787.post-71941578258583038442008-09-03T15:51:00.000-05:002008-09-03T15:51:00.000-05:00"Thomas Aquinas and Bernard of Clairvaux opposed t..."Thomas Aquinas and Bernard of Clairvaux opposed this new teaching, for if she was conceived this way, and born without original sin and herself was sinless, then she also would need no redemption, and all humans need redemption, even the mother of the Redeemer."<BR/><BR/>Both of them St. Thomas and St. Bernard actually were against the immaculate conception because they believed sex to be inherently sinful (as St. Augustine did). It had nothing to do with a dislike of Mary or Soteriological problems.<BR/><BR/>However, after having said that I agree with you on almost everything else in the post. However the East eventually venerated her to the same level as the West did - or near enough.<BR/><BR/>It's also ironic that Martin Luther believed in the immaculate conception.<BR/><BR/>but all in all, good post. I like that you're coming at it from a historical theology perspective, these posts are by far the most convincing anti-Catholic things I've read. I'd like to hear more.Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02752373297874435269noreply@blogger.com